MMS and LAURICIDIN under phase contrast scope

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Dr Googlittle
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Re: MMS and LAURICIDIN under phase contrast scope

Post by Dr Googlittle » Sun 8 Aug 2010 18:28

Hi Carina,

The spirochete-like structure in your avatar sure doesnt look like a CWD/L-form to me, but I believe that you have to decide if you gonna trust Lida or not. She has clearly stated that spirochetes will grow (well) in whole blood as a medium provided that the temperature is correct.

The critisism regarding the MPM-medium wasn't (solely) based on the possibility that Detroit tap-water could be contaminated by a lot of different microbiological life forms. It was more concerend with that tap-water is a non-defined ingredient, which varies between different cities and it was thus very difficult, if not impossible, for other researchers to replicate her experiments in full. Needless to say, the ability to replicate an experiment is the foundation for modern science as we know it.

I know that you have great difficulties in believing in PCR. But you will never know if you are wrong or right until you actually have tested it. BTW, when are you planning to buy your new flourescence microscope to "prove" the existence of spirochetes in your blood samples?
Best regards,
DrG
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Re: MMS and LAURICIDIN under phase contrast scope

Post by X-member » Sun 8 Aug 2010 18:55

I don't need to prove that is is Lyme (in my own blood) any longer, it is confirmed to be Lyme by a skilled Swedish microbiologist.

And, as I have said before, it is not hard to identify an adult spirochete (even if it is not spiral shaped) in blood!

But, it is very hard to find a spiral shaped spirochete, and Lida Mattman say you only find this normal spiral type in about 2% of the Lyme cases.

But if the spirochete you see in my awatar, not was on a smear :D maybe I could have cultured it!

But, how is the person that we are suppose to help with what "the black dots are" ("hatchlings"?), if we give advice, that probably don't work, or that only Mattman have been able to do?

I think we should help people the right way, instead of wasting their time!

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Re: MMS and LAURICIDIN under phase contrast scope

Post by X-member » Sun 8 Aug 2010 19:00

Lida Mattman say:
In contrast, it has been difficult to grow the spirochete from the patient’s blood.
Wasn't we talking about culturing from blood, here?

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Re: MMS and LAURICIDIN under phase contrast scope

Post by X-member » Sun 8 Aug 2010 19:24

I try to explain my point (my english isn't perfect).

If the person is able to separate only the "hatchlings" from the blood, and if he/she is able to culture it, then the person have proved that the "hatchlings" actually are Lyme.

But if he/she also have included red blood cells (or maybe some Lyme granules) in the culture (Lyme live inside blood cells), then he/she only have proved that he/she have Lyme in the blood. The "dots" ("hatchlings") could be something else.

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Dr Googlittle
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Re: MMS and LAURICIDIN under phase contrast scope

Post by Dr Googlittle » Sun 8 Aug 2010 19:51

We were talking about culturing in (whole) blood: http://www.tickedoffandfedup.com/Lida_Video.html
35 degrees for 10 days.

Please also provide a scientific reference regarding hatchlings, I have never heard the term before.

BTW, which method did the skilled Swedish microbiologist use to identify the objects as borrelia spirochetes?
Best regards,
DrG
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Re: MMS and LAURICIDIN under phase contrast scope

Post by X-member » Sun 8 Aug 2010 20:19

I said:
If the person is able to separate only the "hatchlings" from the blood, and if he/she is able to culture it, then the person have proved that the "hatchlings" actually are Lyme.

But if he/she also have included red blood cells (or maybe some Lyme granules) in the culture (Lyme live inside blood cells), then he/she only have proved that he/she have Lyme in the blood. The "dots" ("hatchlings") could be something else.
Googlelittle, now you wrote:
We were talking about culturing in (whole) blood: http://www.tickedoffandfedup.com/Lida_Video.html
35 degrees for 10 days.
In an earlier answer you said:
Take a larger aliqout of blood in which you have identified "hatchlings". Then cutlivate them at 30 degrees Celcius for a couple of days, then send it off for PCR, then tell us what the result was.
And now you say:
Please also provide a scientific reference regarding hatchlings, I have never heard the term before.
You should not ask me that question! :D Read what was said earlier in this topic, instead!

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Dr Googlittle
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Re: MMS and LAURICIDIN under phase contrast scope

Post by Dr Googlittle » Sun 8 Aug 2010 22:45

As I said: Good luck Carina, you'll need it.
Best regards,
DrG
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Re: MMS and LAURICIDIN under phase contrast scope

Post by X-member » Sun 8 Aug 2010 22:59

Thank you again, Dr Googlittle! :D

Yes, you are right, because in Sweden they don't know the problem with chronic (=of long duration) Lyme together with my type of immune deficiency.

The bacteria will never go away and I will never come into remission, so I have plenty of time to "do, what I intended to do". 8-)

If I only survive some of the (IDSA-) advices we get in forums like this, of course! :roll:

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Re: MMS and LAURICIDIN under phase contrast scope

Post by X-member » Mon 16 Aug 2010 19:45

I found, what I think is a better advice for what could be CWD/L-form (the "dots"):

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/info/notes ... ient-forms
Dr. Mattman said she frequently isolates L-forms from Lyme patients with aseptic meningitis and endocarditis, How is this done? Traditional culture media is virtually worthless, as are traditional heat fixed blood smears. The answer is, in many cases, a simple technique that is rarely used any more in labs. A live wet mount is prepared using the patients blood or bully coat. This is a simple procedure, where the blood sample is placed on a wet slide with acrodine orange dye to stain the nucleic acids. Then a monoclonal antibody fluorescent stain that is specific for Borrelia burgdorferi is added. Then the slide is examined under a microscope. Although this is a simple procedure that most labs could easily do; it is not being done. Why? Simply because most labs have no real understanding of CWD forms.

There are some scientists who oppose the idea that CWD forms are the cause of persistent infections. They assert that if CWD forms exist, why can't we detect them by PCR? Even in absence of cell wall, these bacteria still have to contain DNA. Yet no published studies exist that compare PCR/DNA amplification results to CWD culturing techniques. Although culturing has long since been the gold standard in proof of infection, there seems to be a double standard when accepting culturing as proof when it comes to CWD forms. Unfortunately, both PCR and L-form culture techniques are in their infancy, and are far from perfected or standardized.
bully coat (from the text) = buffy coat (?)

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Dr Googlittle
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Re: MMS and LAURICIDIN under phase contrast scope

Post by Dr Googlittle » Tue 17 Aug 2010 17:10

Good luck Carina, you'll sure need it, plus a new microscope.
Best regards,
DrG
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