Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Medical topics with questions, information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
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duncan
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Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by duncan » Sat 29 Oct 2016 1:15

You seem intent on repeating the wrong questions.

migs
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Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by migs » Sat 29 Oct 2016 1:58

nnecker, there is a broader picture when dealing with this situation. A this point, I am not of the opinion that the Ceres test is any better or worse than a Western Blot, C6, etc... My GP strongly suspects, as do I, that I have an infection that is not being fully eradicated, but we are not stupid enough to be 100% convinced of that. One experimental test is not going to change our minds being positive or negative, after the medical odyssey I have experienced and she has witnessed.

My GP is not an ILADS doc and offers no treatments that are not "standard". She is, luckily, a very sharp person who reads medical journals with a hunger. Her full time passion is medical history and she is also very open minded and interested in Lyme and where it will be in 30 years.

She has seen me post tick attachment and bullseye rash experience pericarditis, facial palsy, prolonged hypotension, a severely cramped up and painful right wrist, and more. She has also seen my almost complete rebirth. She is not looking to cast me adrift due to a test result and knows I am not a person with normal aches and pains of everyday life.

I am not sure of your medical or common-sense platform but I suspect if u were me, u would not so easily dismiss or be convinced of an infection due to one experimental urinalysis.

VM, Duncan, and Henry I am sure you get irritated with one another but very good discussion on the whole.

velvetmagnetta
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Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by velvetmagnetta » Sat 29 Oct 2016 2:24

Kiki - I eagerly look forward to those results along with the stories that go along with them. The context is just as important to me as the results. Thank you ahead if time!

Duncan - so sorry to hear you are still having such a hard time health-wise - but very nice to read you again. I did realize that Henry brought up metabolomics before but did not want to speculate or discuss it for precisely the reasons you raised: a downstream metabolic pathway may be useful some time in the future, but it says nothing about the causes of the metabolism mishaps.

I find that the causes of pain and sickness are extremely important and don't think putting a bandaid on the issue will last or is even necessarily a good idea. Covering up the problem may allow it to grow worse over time. Then again, I would not turn down a bandaid that would make me feel even just 5 percent better!

Another problem with ignoring the cause of an illness is that it would be epidemeologically (sp?) irresponsible. We would have no way of knowing if the cause is vector-borne, environmental, or something else.

So, my hats off to all who are involved in the metabolomics research, but I can't depend on that to yield any helpful fruit for us any time soon.

And finally, I really didn't want to address you again, Henry, but alas I must. Yes, this nano test is THAT sensitive. If you would just do the teeniest bit of research about it then you would see why.

Also, it takes time (and money!) to get FDA approved, but a company that wants to still be around by the time they get it has to begin offering their test as soon as possible. It is not irresponsible to do so. Many tests are not, and never even intend to become FDA approved. This is especially true for non-invasive tests. You could look this fact up, but I know you won't bother.

I believe Ceres is seeking FDA approval status because they realize what an important test they have and can see it becoming the quintessential Lyme test for the CDC and doctors in the very near future.

Another very important aspect of this test I want to point out is that it may cost $400 right now to take it, but the really great thing about this technology is that it will one day drop dramatically in price and can be adjusted to detect nearly any antigen or chemical or biological agent, so will be used much more in the future - they just happened to start using this tech for Lyme.

velvetmagnetta
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Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by velvetmagnetta » Sat 29 Oct 2016 2:32

Hi Migs! Sorry for posting right on top of yours - I didn't see it when I began writing mine.

So are you of the opinion that you are currently infected with something? As opposed to your pain and other symptoms being from the after-effects of some infection?

I get that you probably don't know for certain, but it sounds like you are working with a very good and empathetic doctor and that both of you have done a good deal of research. So, these things make me curious about your ideas on the matter.

migs
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Joined: Mon 28 Sep 2009 23:00

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by migs » Sat 29 Oct 2016 5:11

VM, yes uncured infection is my personal opinion.

My GP is leaning towards tick borne virus at this point and that I may have killed the infection already. She doesnt like the antibiotics and prefers mainstream thinking that antibiotics should cure Lyme, but I know she feels far from certain and is open to new research...she seems very open minded still.

Kiki
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Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Kiki » Sat 29 Oct 2016 7:22

Henry--

I am not here to push any sort of agenda, for or against chronic Lyme disease (or the Nanotrap test). You've assumed a motivation for taking this test that I do not have. I was only trying to share information.

You're right, though. The Ceres test remains to be validated. In fact, there is currently no definitive test for Lyme.

Science regularly confronts the problem of having to retract claims that it once confidently asserted. Are you willing to do the same?

You asked me what other independent tests I'm going to use to confirm a positive Nanotrap test. My list is long and my situation is unique, and I will share in detail when I post my results, but let me start with this... I have an "FDA approved" scientific diagnosis of a rare autoimmune neurological disorder. Not only do I have it, but my daughter has it as well. A recently "FDA approved" medication gave us our lives back--thank God they had the $43 mil it took to get it approved! Other sufferers of this disease report a co-infection of Lyme.

My son is also sick, not with this neurological disorder, but with "FDA approved" Lyme. His symptoms significantly overlap with ours. My daughter and I tested positive on Western blot for both IgG & IgM, and both of our CD57 are below 10. Do you see where I'm going with this?

Our illnesses are being well managed and the result of our Nanotrap test will not change our course of treatment.

So, why are all three of us taking the Nanotrap test? I'm simply curious. And if you're actually a Lyme sufferer, then you should be too.

Oh, and by the way--Ceres is in the final stage of FDA approval.

Henry
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Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Henry » Sun 30 Oct 2016 1:12

Kiki; You said, "There is currently no definitive test for Lyme disease"? How uninformed to put it kindly. You might just want to consult this very recent article: http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/22/7/pdfs/15-1694.pdf .

There is nothing that I feel compelled to retract about the nanotrap test. I have supplied ample references to support my statement re: the reciprocal expression of OspA and OspC. Once again, in case you missed them, these findings are pretty convincing: http://jb.asm.org/content/190/10/3429.full ; http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/1 ... 8.full.pdf .

velvetmagnetta
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Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by velvetmagnetta » Sun 30 Oct 2016 2:33

Kiki - I am very curious to know what auto-immune disease you and your daughter have. I realize that this is very personal and private information, but would you be willing to share that info? If you (understandably) do not want to post that info publicly on here, perhaps you would be willing to send me a private message?

The reason I'm curious about this is that I think maybe there is a chance that a pre-existing auto-immune disorder could be related to why some people cannot seem to fully eradicate a Lyme infection - even after one or more full (or longer) courses of antibiotics.

There is evidence that the Lyme spirochete may actually "hang out" near our lymph nodes where antibodies are created and in doing so, they actually stimulate the body into creating antibodies - but there's a catch - the antibodies that are created in this way are somehow prevented from specifying into Lyme-killing antibodies.

So, what happens is that our bodies get an influx of antibodies that are not specific enough to actually find the Lyme and end up causing a torrent of inflammation that winds up killing our healthy body cells instead - they just go on a killing spree - and we just feel tons of inflammation that behaves more like an auto-immune disorder and, I believe, causes all sorts of damage to our healthy cells.

This idea that Lyme prevents B-cell specification is not my own. I will try to find the article where I got this from. I believe there is a thread about this on this message board somewhere.

So, in keeping with this idea, perhaps if a person who already had a malfunctioning immune system is infected with Lyme, that malfunction is compounded and grows worse causing the body to have an even harder time clearing out the Lyme bacteria than it would if the person's immune system was functioning normally at the time of infection.

(Sorry if this is outside of the scope of this thread!)

Kiki
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Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Kiki » Sun 30 Oct 2016 8:55

Henry -- The section titled 'Clinical Considerations and Common Pitfalls' in the article that you provided doesn't sound very definitive to me!

Your understanding of OspA & OspC is narrow, and the conclusions you've drawn from those articles are dangerously wrong. You are shouting your opinion in the wind.

Velvetmagnetta -- This autoimmune illness and my son's Lyme is very interesting, indeed! We are fortunate, though, to have an excellent group of doctors working with us and we are waiting to participate in a study at Emory. The next six months will be very telling.

I'd like to hear more about your theory and I think you will like what I have to share. How do I PM on this board?

Henry
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Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Henry » Sun 30 Oct 2016 14:08

Kiki: How absurd!! Read the article, not just the section titles. The data shown in the table is both illuminating and convincing. My goodness -- the results of several independently conducted studies all with the same conclusive evidence.

As to my views on the reciprocal expression of OspA and OspC, they are generally accepted by outstanding research scientists with vast experience doing research on Lyme disease. An just what are your credentials compared to theirs? Only a witless fool would believe what you have to say and not them?

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