Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Medical topics with questions, information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
Kiki
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu 27 Oct 2016 23:45

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Kiki » Sun 30 Oct 2016 16:30

Henry-- Your erroneous assumptions are in direct relation to your naïve pomposity.

I was not disagreeing with the articles, I was disagreeing with the conclusion you drew from them.

nnecker
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 22:57

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by nnecker » Sun 30 Oct 2016 17:18

From what I understand,Henry is a trained microbiologist.What are your credentials Kiki?

duncan
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Joined: Wed 5 Sep 2012 18:48

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by duncan » Sun 30 Oct 2016 17:27

Good to hear he's trained.

Henry
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Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Henry » Sun 30 Oct 2016 18:22

Kiki: Please elaborate. Just what about my "conclusions" bothers you and conflicts with the findings reported in the articles I posted ? The reciprocal expression of OspA and OspC , as well as their role in the pathogenesis of borrelial infection are well-established. Obviously, vast difference in the abundance of OspA and OspC on the surface of Borrelia during the course of infection and the poor choice of OspA as the ligand are like to be crucial to the success of the nanotrap assay, despite what the people at Ceres say.

Kiki
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu 27 Oct 2016 23:45

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Kiki » Mon 31 Oct 2016 0:06

I understand very well the reciprocal expression of OspA & OspC, which is why I know that your argument against the Nanotrap test is an invalid one. Go back and read the article you sent me. It states very clearly that the downregulation of OspA is neither complete or persistent.

This downregulation is only the first step in a very complex process. Why is this the place that you chose to end your reasoning and draw a conclusion (maybe a confirmation bias)? Can you explain to me why this downregulation occurs? Or what happens next? If OspA isn’t downregulated, then what? Why are anti-OspA antibody titers found in late borrelial infection?

Most importantly, when is OspA upregulated? AND WHY?

These are a few (of many) questions that should be explored before a conclusion about the Nanotrap test is made.
Last edited by Kiki on Mon 31 Oct 2016 4:32, edited 2 times in total.

velvetmagnetta
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun 23 Feb 2014 22:47

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by velvetmagnetta » Mon 31 Oct 2016 1:50

Hahaha! Nnecker, in what UNIVERSE is Henry a trained microbiologist? No matter what he has lead people to believe, there's just no way. He doesn't even know the very basics of experimental procedure and knows even less about statistics.

I once thought (well really, hoped) that he was somehow involved in the scientific side of Lyme disease, but after a few arguments with him, it became painfully obvious that he is just some guy sitting behind his keyboard trolling Lyme sites.

So when I implored readers out there not to listen to him about Osp A, I really meant it. And now you all can see why!

Thank you, Henry, for being your usual charming self.

Kiki - Yes! Please do PM me and I will definitely try to find the article about Lyme and the lymph nodes. You can do this by clicking your "inbox" and the "Send a Private Message" button. You can then get to a list of all the members - find my username "velvetmagnetta" and click on it and it should fill in the "To" field.

Really the best way is to play around with your inbox until you find it. There are all sorts of cool settings and such that you can change. I think you can even block seeing certain people's posts (I won't name names ;))

Better yet, I'll send you a PM and you can just reply to that!

Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Henry » Mon 31 Oct 2016 13:45

Kiki: You need to do more reading to broaden your understanding of the role of OspA and OspC in the pathogenesis of borreliosis where there is abundant information. Also, note that I said that even with the reciprocal expression of OspA and OspC, the genes are still presentand therefore could be expressed under certain circumstances, e.g., in response to inflammation as with an arthritic joint etc. So, it is a question of the abundance of the antigen during infection and the likelihood of being able to being able to detect a minute amount of antigen (OspA) vs some other antigen (I suggested C6 but that may not be the best one to use) that is likely to be expressed in far greater abundance. Seems like a reasonable approach, wouldn't you agree?

Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Henry » Mon 31 Oct 2016 13:49

Kiki: You need to do more reading to broaden your understanding of the role of OspA and OspC in the pathogenesis of borreliosis. There is abundant information in the literature on all this . Also, note that I said that even with the reciprocal expression of OspA and OspC, the genes are still presentand therefore could be expressed under certain circumstances, e.g., in response to inflammation as with an arthritic joint etc. So, it is not a question of absolute amounts. Rather, it is a question of the abundance of an antigen during infection and the likelihood of being able to being able to detect a minute amount of that antigen (OspA) vs being able to detect some other antigen (I suggested C6 but that may not be the best one to use) that is likely to be expressed in far greater abundance. Seems like a reasonable approach, wouldn't you agree? Or don't you understand..............

Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Henry » Mon 31 Oct 2016 14:10

Velvetmagnetta: You are entitled to your own biased opinions, but not to your own facts. For those who doubt what I've said about the expression and role of OspA in the pathogenesis of borreliosis, here is still another relevant paper published in a very prestigious peer-reviewed journal, sponsored by the National Academy of Sciences: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC42328/ . And what counter evidence does Velvetmagnetta have to offer in response? Nothing of substance, except to plead with others not to listen to me. I'm right and he/she is wrong. I rest my case. Follow Velvetmagnetta's "reasoning" -- or more likely uninformed "feelings" -- at your peril. Velvetmagnetta's plea to not listen to Henry sounds more like a childish temper tantrum given when no convincing evidence is offered to support such a desperate and shameful reaction. Henry may not always be right, but he is right this time.
Last edited by Henry on Mon 31 Oct 2016 14:36, edited 3 times in total.

hv808ct
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed 30 Jul 2008 4:11

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by hv808ct » Mon 31 Oct 2016 14:17

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap
Post by velvetmagnetta » Mon 31 Oct 2016 1:50

Hahaha! Nnecker, in what UNIVERSE is Henry a trained microbiologist? No matter what he has lead people to believe, there's just no way. He doesn't even know the very basics of experimental procedure and knows even less about statistics.

I once thought (well really, hoped) that he was somehow involved in the scientific side of Lyme disease, but after a few arguments with him, it became painfully obvious that he is just some guy sitting behind his keyboard trolling Lyme sites.
Actually, that's exactly what Henry is-- a well-known microbiologist with a long track record in research and publications.

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