Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Medical topics with questions, information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
velvetmagnetta
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun 23 Feb 2014 22:47

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by velvetmagnetta » Thu 3 Nov 2016 3:21

OK! Now we're getting somewhere!

(Henry, you've mixed up some of the things I've said and some of the things Kiki has said, so I will address just the part that has to do with me.)

So, would you say that there might be one OspA sight per unit in a small urine sample? Or are you saying that because of the reciprocal relationship of Osp A and C that there would be no OspA on the surface of a spirochete at all?

After you've answered that question, I would like you to do a tiny bit of research to find what kind of nanotechnology we are dealing with here. You can use the search terms "Carbon Nanotubes Lyme" and that should bring you to several articles dated about 3-4 years back about this nano-system.

After you've read what tiny quantities these carbon nanotubes are capable of detecting, then respond back with whether you think they'll be able to detect some possibly very low quantities.

It sounds from the letter from the Ceres pathologist that they have, in fact, done some Lyme research. So they are not some ignorant company just trying to make a buck with a fake Lyme test, as you would lead us to believe. Instead, these people, I would venture to say, know more than you do how likely it is that they will find the OspA antigen in a sample of a patient's urine.

I guess you just skipped over the part where they had done comparison studies to show that OspA does turn up from patients with an active Lyme infection.

I know you really, really want to discredit this test because it has already shown that our currently accepted antibiotic regimen is lacking for some patients. But I think you and your cronies are going to have a much harder time discrediting these scientists than you did with that culture test.

If you have any further doubts about this test, please write to Ceres before you further libel them here. Because now you know their reasoning and what research they've conducted, so be careful what you knowingly say falsely in a public forum.

Henry
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Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Henry » Thu 3 Nov 2016 12:27

Velvetmagnetta: I have addressed all of the issues you raised quite clearly in previous postings. I won't waste my time responding to them again.

velvetmagnetta
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun 23 Feb 2014 22:47

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by velvetmagnetta » Thu 3 Nov 2016 16:46

Yeah. That's probably for the best.

Kiki
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu 27 Oct 2016 23:45

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Kiki » Thu 3 Nov 2016 20:30

Duncan, you’re right. I should have defined what I meant by a successful antibiotic treatment. I was referring to completion of the standard regimen--which, as we know, doesn’t always work. Take a look here: http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... 004-1163-z

Here are a few of my references.

EM rash result of immune recognition of OspA: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8040289, and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24471698

OspC isn’t always an immune target because it’s protected by tick salivary protein: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2446733/

OspA parallels the rising of the antibody response to Bb proteins: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC96293/

OspA correlate directly with severity of chronic Lyme arthritis, and duration: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9864212

OspA is highly conserved among a large number of pathogenic species of Borrelia: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1406458, and http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/1 ... 1/S46.full

OspA is upregulated: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12819088

The Nanotrap test is absolutely the most accurate and reliable test available for lyme. But don’t take my word for it--research it yourself and draw your own conclusion.

Even my infectious disease doctor (who probably sleeps with the “FDA approval bible” under his pillow, and btw is not the doctor who suggested this test) is interested in seeing my Nanotest results after reading their literature. If you’re having difficulty finding a doctor who will treat your lyme--share the literature and take the test. But study it yourself, first--there’s no point in taking the test if you can’t accept the outcome of it.

Anyone who believes they’re suffering with undiagnosed or unresolved lyme should be exuberant about this test. It is your chance to either confirm or refute a diagnosis of lyme. It is a cheap investment in terms of your health. Any number of bacterial and viral infections (including those unknown!), and parasites, can cause the symptoms of lyme. These infections can also cause autoimmune disorders. Antibiotic misuse will weaken your immune systems and create disease resistance. Some antibiotics can cause the neurological symptoms of lyme. All I’m saying is---it is imperative to know what you are treating!

Sadly, sometimes the cause of debilitating suffering can't be known. These people suffer the most, in my opinion. They are the recipients of apathy and scepticism. For them, often the risk of trying an “experimental” or “unjustifiable” treatment is their only hope. Everyone deserves treatment, and no sufferer should ever be criticised for their efforts.

duncan
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Joined: Wed 5 Sep 2012 18:48

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by duncan » Thu 3 Nov 2016 20:42

That Marques/Klempner effort was over five years after initial findings and study results promoting the C6 first began to surface. Check out those around 1999. Notice, too, in the abstract you've provided a link to, that they do not really discuss C6 relative to late stage, rather, they invoke PTLDS. Incidentally, Kiki, good find on that study - interesting that what's his name from Tulane appears to have been involved.

Could it be that the C6 works in those people it is able to identify infection, and when it works it works in all stages? So that, not only should the C6 show values - in successfully treated patients - return to normal or at least decline by a factor of four in early and early disseminated, but in late stage as well? When pressured, some of the old guard, I believe, have opined they cannot explain what is going on with the C6 post treatment in late stage cases; could it be that perhaps they are not being completely candid?

As far as the Ceres Nanotrap is concerned, I too am excited at its potential.

PS. An IDSA clinician I respect has told me, though, that he has seen many Lyme cases where the C6 declines to "acceptable" levels after treatment, but patients' symptoms remain unabated.

PPS: I am pretty sure I saw something that suggested Stanford and Davis and Naviaux and Gordon are employing the Ceres Nanotrap in some of their metabolomics efforts.

amr
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon 17 Aug 2015 5:41

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by amr » Fri 4 Nov 2016 3:54

I'm not sure how far Igenex has come with this since this article was written last year but I found it interesting -

New Synthetic Antigen
IGeneX explores ways to improve sensitivity of Western blots


Tiny excerpt - "Because the in-house criteria do include the band that migrates where the OspA antigen is located, we developed a WB using recombinant (synthetic) OspA antigen. With this WB, only patient serum with OspA specific antibodies will form a complex with the recombinant OspA antigen and give a positive result"

Just a one page article on Page 29 of https://www.lymedisease.org/lymetimes/volume-27-2/

My lack of hope with any new test is whether any Dr other than a paid-out-of-pocket Doc will accept the results.

Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Henry » Fri 4 Nov 2016 14:46

AMR: Duh!!! Once again-- OspA is not the right ligand to use, for all of the reasons that I gave in previous postings. Furthermore, it is not included in the CDC criteria for Western blots, also for the same reasons that I gave. However, for those who want to waste their money of another false positive test developed by IGenex..............

Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Henry » Fri 4 Nov 2016 19:49

Amr: Another example of the folly of those who prefer to accept misinformation being disseminated by uninformed Lyme disease activists, rather than the published results of evidence-based peer reviewed research by experts on Lyme disease. See how far it has gotten you.

duncan
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed 5 Sep 2012 18:48

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by duncan » Fri 4 Nov 2016 20:52

Henry, would these be the same experts who characterize the debilitating and persistent symptoms of thousands and thousands of Lyme sufferers as merely the aches and pains of every day life? That triage symptom priority based on 30-year-old studies? That dismiss and even disparage the patient experience? That deny Bb persistence after conventional abx despite three highly regarded, and wholly independent, studies in the last two years confirming it?

Thank goodness for potential sources of innovation like George Mason University and the Ceres Nanotrap.

Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Henry » Fri 4 Nov 2016 21:01

Duncan: As I said, let's see what Ceres really has to offer in terms of a validated test. I doubt their test will ever be approved by the FDA for the same deficiencies that I have already noted in previous posts. And what is the evidence or "patient experience" that you really have a persistent infection? What do you have that would persuade a competent physician to treat you with an antibiotic? Subjective symptoms alone are not sufficient proof of a persistent infection.

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