Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Medical topics with questions, information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
duncan
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Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by duncan » Fri 4 Nov 2016 21:09

Hmmm...

For starters, I am 2T positive and C6 positive and have evidence of intrathecal Bb antibodies and elevated proteins in my CSF, and lesions on my brain MRI.

Henry
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Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Henry » Fri 4 Nov 2016 21:24

Duncan: The presence of such antibodies could indicate past exposure, not active infection. There could be other reasons for elevated proteins in CSF and brain lesions. None of this is proof of active Borrelia infection. I recall you said that you've been treated several times in the past with antibiotics, all to no avail. A competent physician would wonder why you and/or he would expect a different outcome if treated with antibiotics again. That wouldn't make sense.

duncan
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Joined: Wed 5 Sep 2012 18:48

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by duncan » Fri 4 Nov 2016 21:30

Henry: The only real proof is to culture it.

You are on a slippery slope. You and I both know I have enough evidence to warrant treatment. But this is what dogma can do to a person...

Relative to treatment, if you listened to patients, you'd know that everyone is different if they've been relegated to that growing fraternity of people in whom an IDSA-recommended regimen fails . And if other "experts" would listen to patients, maybe we'd see more (any?) new treatment studies to solve this outrageous circumstance.

Henry, think Tulane and Monica Embers; they demonstrated persistence in monkeys. Think Hopkins Zhang and the NE researcher, Kim Lewis, who showed it in vitro. Bb can persist post-conventional treatment. We know this. Something is wrong on the treatment front. You don't even have to listen to those researchers. Just listen to the patients whose lives are ruined after conventional treatment fails, and the system turns its back on them.

Of course, a good place to start is better diagnostics.

Henry
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Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Henry » Sat 5 Nov 2016 0:12

Duncan: Once again, you persist in making the same circular argument. In your case, there is no evidence to indicate active infection. If a patient lives in an endemic area and presents to a physician with symptoms usually associated with Lyme disease, the physician would treat that patient with the standard course of antibiotics and do serological testing on convalescent serum later for confirmation of a diagnosis. If antibiotic treatment is not effective and the patient is seronegative, then most competent physicians would explore other possible causes for the symptoms. Once again, you have not presented any compelling evidence to justify antibiotic therapy. So, I am listening to a patient -- you-- who is telling me nothing that is conclusive. Nothing. Note: there is no clinical evidence for the development of antibiotic strains of Borrelia.

Although Embers did find intact Borrelia in monkeys treated with antibiotics, there is no evidence that such bacterial cells were viable; they could just as well have been intact dead cells. All of the studies by Zhang and Lewis were done in vitro. They in no way approximate events that occur in vivo since they exclude the influence of the host immune system.

So, in the final analysis, you have convinced yourself that you have late Lyme disease that is due to a persistent infection, but have no objective evidence to indicate that you really have a persistent Borrelia infection. You need to have a test, like the Ceres nanotrap test, that will prove to you -- and others-- that you really have Lyme disease. Unfortunately, the test is based on a number of false assumptions on the expression of OspA during mammalian infections, as I have already discussed at great length. It is not likely to be of any value. Once again, no competent physician will treat a patient based on the results of a test that has not been validated and approved for clinical use.

duncan
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Joined: Wed 5 Sep 2012 18:48

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by duncan » Sat 5 Nov 2016 0:54

:shock:

Henry, I just cited objective evidence. You simply don't think it is enough to prove active Lyme. But it IS objective evidence, and I've more that I have not bothered to mention. I shouldn't need to. I have objective evidence. I have symptoms. You simply prefer to ignore both categories. Hey, these aren't MY rules; they are from your buddies. That's a common flaw in certain Lyme circles for reasons that elude me. Forget about covering your ears to what patients try to tell you - People like you choose to ignore the very tests results you herald as being almost irreproachably accurate. One can only guess as to why. I can only imagine what you would say if I were not 2T positive. And you still have no idea what happens with the C6.

Patients cannot win. They've been locked out with impossible inclusion hurdles. It almost seems like a fail-safe means to prevent a diagnosis of late stage Lyme. Again, one can only wonder as to why. It certainly does not serve the patient, not by any stretch.

This is the problem with some of your so-called experts. They turn their backs on what is right in front of their eyes. They turn their backs on patients' input. On patients.

If I were inclined to offer advice, I might suggest such experts stop ignoring the growing volumes of research which support a pernicious and sometimes catastrophic infection, and start listening more intently to the sick who have entrusted their care to them.

Henry
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Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Henry » Sat 5 Nov 2016 14:51

I'm getting tired and bored with repeating what I said, over and over again to someone with a closed mind. Please feel free to follow your mistaken assumptions and to continue to seek solutions to cure a disease that you don't have using unproven methods -- all the while anticipating a different outcome. Sounds a lot like "Cure Unknown".

Incidentally, I've been told that Ceres gave a presentation on the nanotrap diagnostic test for Lyme disease at a recent conference on the diagnosis of Lyme disease. Several research scientists criticized it for exactly the same reasons that I noted in my postings. So, I am not alone in holding such views. Representatives from the FDA also attended the conference. They were not convinced by what Ceres had to say and were well aware of the deficiencies noted in the open discussion session -- the same ones that I noted in my postings. I doubt the procedure will get FDA approval. Sorry, you may have to find another test to prove to you -- and to the world-- that you have Lyme disease.

nnecker
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Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 22:57

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by nnecker » Sat 5 Nov 2016 15:27

ducan said:
start listening more intently to the sick(who think they have Lyme disease)
I have,and 90% of them are total whack job kooks.

duncan
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed 5 Sep 2012 18:48

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by duncan » Sat 5 Nov 2016 15:30

Henry: "...seek solutions to cure a disease that you don't have..."

I suspect it will be odd declarations similar to this, removed from evidence and arguably characterized by a misplaced arrogance, that some elements of the Old Guard will be remembered for long after their influence has waned into an unpleasant memory.

Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by Henry » Sat 5 Nov 2016 19:07

Duncan: I've listen to a lot of them. They don't all have the same symptoms (because -- after all-- it's the "great imitator"), most do not have a clinical history of having correctly diagnosed Lyme disease in the first place (because the diagnostic tests and/or physicians are "no good"), and many live in areas where there are no Ixodes ticks ( so now it must be sexually transmitted). God only knows what they have. Since no single medical condition fits all of the symptoms they describe, they most likely do not have the same illness. Under such circumstances , it makes no sense to treated as though you have Lyme disease when you don't have it. No wonder they aren't getting better. But keep on trucking, Duncan. Maybe you will convince yourself and not need to be reassured by others that you have Lyme disease.

nnecker
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 22:57

Re: Anyone know the latest on the Ceres Nanotrap

Post by nnecker » Sat 5 Nov 2016 20:31

Henry,I think duncan should listen to his sick friends over at Lymenut.kook and get himself a photon machine.With nosodes of course.

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb ... c/1/134934

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