Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

General or non-medical topics with information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
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Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by X-member » Thu 6 Sep 2012 17:25

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... 573#p25950

From the post above (earlier in this thread):

Henry:

Two quotes:
Borrelia don't really have a rigid cell wall like gram positive bacteria; however, they do have a membrane component that gives it some rigidity and its spiral shape. The synthesis of this somewhat rigid cell membrane component is adversely effected by antibiotic therapy, which then results in the development of these various amorphous shapes. In the 1950s when all of this was first described, such forms were called spheroplasts,or protoplasts, or L-forms -- not cysts which are entirely different matter all together. They are not part of the natural growth cycle of Borrelia which reproduce by binary fission as do all other bacteria; rather, these amorphous products are really dead or dying cells that will soon disappear.
So, that is the true story about these "cyst form". They are not formed by Borrelia in the absence of antibiotics and have not been demonstrated to be infectious or to have clinical significance.
http://lymerick.net/1998-Brorson.htm

From the link above:

Two quotes:
Brorson's observation in this paper, that it takes old cysts 4 weeks to convert to as many as 5 mobile spirochetes per cyst, may thus explain the clinically observed 4- week CYCLICITY in Lyme borreliosis (LB) - as well as the observed RELATIVE RESISTANCE to beta-laktam antibiotics, and SERONEGATIVITY !! - and it also explains the clinical observation, that in early LB of only 1-3 weeks duration (only young cysts), shorter antibiotic courses of 10-14 days duration may just about be effective in preventing relapses, while antibiotic treatment of late LB (old cysts) teoretically must be of at least 4 weeks duration, because one must treat long enough for all the oldest cysts to convert back to spirochetes and build their cell walls and thus be susceptible to a beta-laktam-antibiotic!!
Old cystic forms of B. burgdorferi require prolonged cultivation to convert to normal mobile spirochetes (4 weeks as opposed to 9 days for young cysts).

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inmacdonald
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Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by inmacdonald » Wed 3 Oct 2012 3:20

Drs Brorson ( Oystein and Sverre Henning) have provided abundant evidence to the world for
Cyst (Round body) (Coccoid form) viability.

Dr Gruntar and Colleagues have demonstrated that a pure preparation of borrelia
cystic forms, when injected intrperitoneally into laboratory animals, produces
motile spiral forms of borrelia burdgorferi.

The death announcement of Cystic borrelia is false.
The non-infectivity of Cystic Borrelia is also a false concept.

best,
a

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inmacdonald
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Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by inmacdonald » Wed 3 Oct 2012 3:20

Drs Brorson ( Oystein and Sverre Henning) have provided abundant evidence to the world for
Cyst (Round body) (Coccoid form) viability.

Dr Gruntar and Colleagues have demonstrated that a pure preparation of borrelia
cystic forms, when injected intrperitoneally into laboratory animals, produces
motile spiral forms of borrelia burdgorferi.

The death announcement of Cystic borrelia is false.
The non-infectivity of Cystic Borrelia is also a false concept.

best,
a

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Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by X-member » Fri 22 Mar 2013 23:53

Bump! 8-)

Edit to add:

"Cystic forms"

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... f=8&t=4079

A quote:
This topic was about this form, but as you can see in the topic below, we now start to call it only round bodies (even if those "things" don't even have to be round) instead.

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Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by X-member » Thu 19 Dec 2013 17:11

From Sweden:

Zoonoser med fokus på fästingburna zoonoser
Ingvar Eliasson, klinisk bakteriolog
Klinisk mikrobiologi, Laboratoriemedicin NU-sjukvården


http://www.mikrobiologi.net/patogenes20 ... onoser.pdf

A google translated quote from page 23:
Immunological escape (immune evasion)
a) phase and antigenic variation
b) hiding in immunologically low-active compartments (immune
privileged sites) for example, brain, joints, intracellular etc
(c) Cyst-and/or bleb formation)

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inmacdonald
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Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by inmacdonald » Fri 20 Dec 2013 13:30

Images - MULTIPLE - of Cystic Borrelia from a Human diagnostic Pathologist:

--------------------------------
Borrelia cyst in log phase culture from RML.jpg
Cystic borrelia and spiral borrelia in log phase B31 culture
Borrelia cyst in log phase culture from RML.jpg (20.57 KiB) Viewed 5828 times

----------------------------------------
Borrelia cyst with internal granules Aged B31 Culture.jpg
Cystic Borrelia attached to Spiral in pure culture B31
Borrelia cyst with internal granules Aged B31 Culture.jpg (36.98 KiB) Viewed 5828 times

------------------------------
Cystic borrelia invading Alzheimer neuron.jpg
Cystic borrelia (green) invading Alzheimer neuron (red)
Cystic borrelia invading Alzheimer neuron.jpg (23.62 KiB) Viewed 5828 times


--------------------------------------

Round, coexistent with spiral borrelia, larger caliber than spiral, contain internal borrelia content
( Flagellae, granules, karyosomes) , capable of invasion of human cells [Alzheimer's disease]
Real
virulent
Resistant to antibiotics
Capable of regenerating spiral motile borrelia
Capable of cell division, independent to reversion to spiral borrelia forms
Capable survival long term in adverse conditions
Capable of extracellular residence
Capable of intracellular residence
Protein digests of cysts reveals additional unique proteins which change over the life of the cyst form
Capable of shedding borrelia bleb forms
Fully equal to Cystic Treponemal forms of Ovcinnikov et al [ Pub Med ] {Russian studies}
Cystic borrelia are cultivatable from CSF of patients with Neuroborreliosis
Cystic borrelia appear side by side in pure cultures of B31 strain of borrelia burgdorferi
obtained from Rocky Mountain lab, National Institutes of Health, Hamilton, Montana

Respectfully,
Alan B. MacDonald, MD FCAP FASCP
December 20 2013

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Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by X-member » Tue 28 Jan 2014 5:04

From Norway:

Lyme borreliose – en infeksjon med mange ansikter
(Lyme borreliosis - an infection with many faces)

http://www.indremedisineren.no/2011/06/ ... -ansikter/

A google translated quote:
At retreatment, we consider the addition of so-called cyst active treatment with metronidazole (8). Cyst form or "round bodies" should now be regarded as a real biological phenomenon, but the clinical significance in relation to the treatment options are still the subject of dispute.

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Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by X-member » Fri 9 Jan 2015 22:56

Morphological and biochemical features of Borrelia burgdorferi pleomorphic forms
Leena Meriläinen1, Anni Herranen2, Armin Schwarzbach3 and Leona Gilbert4

http://mic.sgmjournals.org/content/earl ... 0027.short

A quote:
Further studies provided evidence that spherical round bodies had an intact and flexible cell envelope demonstrating that they are not cell wall deficient, or degenerative as previously implied.

RitaA
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Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by RitaA » Fri 9 Jan 2015 23:36

Thanks for posting this. I'm going to post it in the Science section as well.

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Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by X-member » Sat 28 May 2016 20:38

Bump!

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