Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

General or non-medical topics with information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
Post Reply
Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by Henry » Wed 4 Jan 2012 21:11

Carina: As I tried to point out, those "round bodies" that some people mistakenly call "cysts" are really the L-forms, sphaeroplasts, protoplasts, and other cell-wall deficient forms that arise during the course of antibiotic therapy for many bacterial infections. The phenomenon is well understood and there is a vast literature on the subject with lots of pictures of these amorphous structures. I have said enough on this issue.

X-member
Posts: 3954
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by X-member » Wed 4 Jan 2012 21:17

Henry wrote:
Carina: As I tried to point out, those "round bodies" that some people mistakenly call "cysts" are really the L-forms, sphaeroplasts, protoplasts, and other cell-wall deficient forms that arise during the course of antibiotic therapy for many bacterial infections. The phenomenon is well understood and there is a vast literature on the subject with lots of pictures of these amorphous structures. I have said enough on this issue.

X-member
Posts: 3954
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by X-member » Sun 22 Jan 2012 16:06

You can find pictures of cysts (and more) in the topic below:

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... 627#p26610

Edit to add:

One of the most known Swedish Lyme experts also call this form a cyst! He used that term in an answer to me (in a letter). In Lida H Mattmans book, the term cyst is also used regarding a picture (syphilis).

User avatar
inmacdonald
Posts: 976
Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2012 22:32

Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by inmacdonald » Mon 23 Jan 2012 23:53

Borrelia Cysts - literature bibliographies

Cystic Borrelia Bibliogrphy

http://www.lymeinfo.net/medical/LDCysts.pdf


General bibliography

http://www.lymeinfo.net/lymefiles.html


Bibliography- Adverse conditions including Cysts, coccoid, end knobs etc

http://www.lymeinfo.net/medical/LDAdverseConditions.pdf

( especially enjoy the image data which are incorporated into the bibliographies above.)

Alan B. MacDonald MD


"Cyst" has been an acceptable descriptor used in peer reviewed publications
for various genera of Spirochetes since before date of birth of any current members
who contribute to this forum.
The bibliographies above substantiate the scientific rationale for various nonspiral
forms which spirochetes may assume.
Last edited by inmacdonald on Mon 9 Jul 2012 14:36, edited 1 time in total.

X-member
Posts: 3954
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by X-member » Tue 24 Jan 2012 0:11

Thank you! 8-)

X-member
Posts: 3954
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by X-member » Tue 24 Jan 2012 15:52

I found a possible source for Henrys info:

http://www.aldf.com/Misinformation_abou ... ease.shtml

A quote:
According to Saunder's "Dictionary and Encyclopdeia of Laboratory Medicine and Technology", there are two definitions of the term "cyst". The first is used to describe any closed cavity or sac -- both normal and abnormal -- that is lined by epithelial cells, although in some locations, it may be lined by connective tissue or bone. The second is used to describe a stage in the life cycle of certain parasites (e.g., Echinococcus granulosus) during which they are enclosed within a protective sac called a hydatid cyst.
That dictionary must have missed that the term cyst has been used for a long, long time when it comes to this form of the borrelia bacteria. And if WE "mistakenly" use the term, everyone know what we talk about anyway!
Last edited by X-member on Fri 27 Jan 2012 1:24, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
inmacdonald
Posts: 976
Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2012 22:32

Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by inmacdonald » Tue 24 Jan 2012 16:34

Borrelial Cysts, Treponemal Cysts, Leptospiral Cysts and Spirochetal Cysts in General

Seven pages of discussion in Carina's Posting on "Lyme Round bodies (cyst from"
are noteworthy. Some "arguments of denial" , some arguments of "degeneration" ,
some arguments of " a priori type" collectively form a body of opinions which
deny the spirocheal cyst form.
In my posting of Jan 23 , 2012 I have provided an exhaustive peer reviewed
Biliography which is supportive of the validity of Spirochetal Cyts. The bibliography
was not prepared by me, but is the work of scholarship of the first order from scientific
literature searches which date back to the year 1905. (Note: currently, internet search
engines are easily available to veify each and every citation )
Treasure in the form of IMAGES of spirochetal cysts is a particularly noteworthy
component of the Jan 23 Bibliography postings.

So let us, individually and collectively, LEARN .....
Please the time to inspect EACH and EVERY PAGE of EACH Bibliography
and let us benefit from some AFFIRMATIVE evidence for BORRELIA CYSTS.

This forum seeks new ( and old) TRUTHS. Scholarship is a path to truth.

With kind hopes for more opportunities to learn from our peers,

Alan B. MacDonald MD

X-member
Posts: 3954
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by X-member » Tue 24 Jan 2012 22:43

"Position paper.
Spirochete round bodies
Syphilis, Lyme disease & AIDS: Resurgence of “the great imitator”?
Lynn Margulis1*, Andrew Maniotis2, James MacAllister1, John Scythes3, Oystein Brorson4, John Hall1,
Wolfgang E. Krumbein5, and Michael J. Chapman1

(Received August 18, 2008; Accepted August 31, 2008)"

http://www1.biogema.de/WEK/312-Margulis-final.pdf

A quote (but you find more info and also images on the link):
Abstract

We advocate investigation of spirochete cyclical symbioses (e.g., Borrelia sp., Leptospira sp., Treponema sp.) given the newly established verification of a developmental history in these gram-negative motile helical eubacteria, both in pure culture and in mammals. Symbiotic spirochetes can be compared to free-living relatives for their levels of integration (behavioral, metabolic, gene product or genetic levels). Detailed research that correlates life histories of symbiotic spirochetes to changes in the immune system of associated vertebrates is sorely needed. Genome analyses show that in necrotrophic symbioses (Borrelia and Treponema sp.) of humans and other primates, integration of the bionts occurs at the gene product and genetic level. Spirochete round bodies (also called cysts, L-forms and sphaeroplasts) can be induced by many types of unfavorable conditions (e.g., threats of starvation, desiccation, oxidation, penicillin and other antibiotics). Reversion to familiar helical, motile active swimmers by placement of pure cultures into favorable environments in some cases can be controlled. These observations are supported by a European literature, especially Russian, apparently unknown to American medicine and medical research.

X-member
Posts: 3954
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by X-member » Tue 24 Jan 2012 23:00

An article in Norwegian, Brorson:

"Borrelia burgdorferi cysteformer:
En sannsynlig årsak til reaktivering og resistens"

("Borrelia burgdorferi cyst forms:
A likely cause of reactivation and resistance")

http://www.fms-cfsfriends.com/2008/BorrCyst.pdf

Sorry, I don't give you a translation of the whole text, but you can use google translate if you are curious, or you can only look at the pictures.

But I give you a translated quote (I used google translate):
The Infectious Diseases Society of America's (IDSAs) recommendations for treatment does not include our theories regarding treatment (40). IDSAs guidelines are based, however, on U.S. studies where only Borrelia burgdorferi sensu stricto occurs. In Europe the situation is more complex since several genospecies occur, and there are more reported cases of recurrence of infection than in the United States.
And I am, as I already have told you, interested in late European borreliosis.

X-member
Posts: 3954
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)

Post by X-member » Tue 24 Jan 2012 23:36

Don't miss Alan B MacDonalds interesting posts in this topic, here:

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =60#p26685

And here:

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =60#p26692

Post Reply